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  2011

- 1941

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    70

 

Minimum age required to join the Military legally: 17 With parental consent, 18 without

 

  1941

-    17

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   1924

 

 

   2011

-  1924

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     87

 

Are there any 87 year old Americans on this site?

Are there any 87 year old Americans on this site that are posting Vlogs or Blogs?

Are there any 87 year old Americans on this site that are posting Vlogs or Blogs who also served in an active branch of the Military during World War 2?

 

I am just curious cause I keep seeing this statement about how "We" stopped the Nazis.

I am not 87 so I know I didn't have a hand in any fighting of a war or helping to free a different nation of people from tyranny or oppression.

 

What's this "We" you speak of, Kemosabe?

 

Oh Wait! Did you mean that "We" as in reference to the nationalistic ideal that as a citizen (In some cases apparently that word only applies to the geographical placement of the location you were physically born in) of the US of A, you are part of the greater identity of the Nation as a whole including and not only limited to the efforts of the United States of America's Military and the actions that they take, including the involvement in WW2 (Together with the efforts of the Military powers of other nations as well. "We" were not fighting alone over there and all. Just saying...) regardless of your ACTUAL involvement or distinct lack thereof in said situations?

 

If so, why didn't you just say that to avoid confusion?

 

Because... You know. 

 

Taking credit for someone else's work is bad.

 

 

They taught us that in Kindergarten.

Views: 152

Comment by Ken - rivrvlogr on August 5, 2011 at 1:00pm

We conquered the indiginous people of this continent.

We enslaved those brought here for that specific purpose.

We continue to discriminate against those who do not hold our values or beliefs.

We need to get over ourselves.

Comment by RavenLaughs on August 5, 2011 at 1:23pm

@Ken

 

I still maintain that I am not part of this "We" you speak of, although I do agree with the whole get over ourselves part. :)

Comment by Marcel on August 5, 2011 at 1:42pm

Let's not forget that this type of "We" usually is very selective. The German "We" somehow always has 12 long years missing.

And yes of course, you can admire certain historical events and admire and even feel related to the participants, but you would not take credit for theirs deeds personally.

Comment by Ken - rivrvlogr on August 5, 2011 at 2:30pm
@Dan - Yes, by We, I meant "We" (in quotes).
Comment by Diesel Bodine on August 5, 2011 at 2:36pm
Often "we" is used collectively, which gives the appearance of personal guilt for something, adherence to or support of something, and other types of connectivity beyond what may actually be the reality. To say for instance, "We're destroying the environment," sounds as if the speaker has taken an active role in the act. It's a generalization that has the overall group, i.e. humanity, or some aspect of it, as the instigators, not necessarily the speaker. Since the speaker is human, the statement focuses on the reality that the group to which the speaker belongs (humanity), or a division of it, is the perpetrator. It's unfortunate that such generalizations can be interpreted as absolutes, when they're more or less short-cuts that we use to streamline our dialogues.
Comment by Marcel on August 5, 2011 at 2:52pm
Leave it to Jfry to conjure up the kind of "We" that lets you hear the sound of marching boots on the pavement in the background.
Comment by RavenLaughs on August 5, 2011 at 3:10pm

@JFry

 

Ooh! You mean I get to now engage in this farce of a "conversation" too?

 

Well then, I should dig right in and do so, wouldn't want to disregard opportunities that we afforded me!

 

Just as a quick side note, I am Native American by half (Half Cherokee) so I really AM Tonto! At least in a partial sense.  :D

 

Now, on to addressing your point.

 

Being proud of being an American... So nationalistic, kinda like I said with the whole ""We" as in reference to the nationalistic ideal..." line?

 

Being proud is not the same as being prideful. Pride is demonstrated by ACTIONS, not words.

Telling someone else they should be grateful "We" saved their asses from Hitler is prideful. It is arrogant and disrespectful of those that had come before us.

 

Being Proud of being an American means to personify the traits that this Nation REPRESENTS, not engendering the STEREOTYPES that exist here.

 

Let us talk about the accomplishments of our (Technically my forefathers were either killed, enslaved or abused by the forefathers. I am a second Generation American on my Father's side as my Grandparents game from Sicily and a... um... Pre First generation American on my Mothers? What does that make me mathematically? 1/2 divided by negative one? Christ, I hate involved algebra equations)


If we want to talk in generalities about what the forefathers did and how this country was founded, then we should see that their actions spoke of freedom and liberty (Not counting that whole slavery, genocide stuff of course)

 

When we as a NATION were involved in the actions that we as a NATION took, people spoke in the "We" because it was not just an idea, it was an actual fact of life.

 

Being proud of being an American is embodying the ideals of the forefathers in deed.

 

Telling others they should be grateful for the actions of others is prideful rather than proud, although I still maintain that if you didn't pick up a gun and storm those Normandy beaches, the grounds you have to speak as an authority on the matter is nullified.

 

And just as a separate point, I went to a catholic kindergarten. A Roman Catholic kindergarten.

They made me pray at the flag, so what I was taught was that God was the country, when it came to this kind of thing.

 

Being proud, feeling a sense of connection to the hearts and minds of those that came before and a desire to emulate those actions I understand. This country was built to be a great nation (Albeit on the backs and bones of "Lesser" peoples) and to be the standard of how the free world should be.

 

I can appreciate a good ideal. I am also a realist and know that we are far from that ideal in a lot of ways, so the ideal isn't fully realized.

 

I was born here and have felt the sting of that Nationalistic mentality. I have been on the receiving end of "Patriotic" fists.

 

I am still here.

 

So, once again I state, who is this "We"? because I was not there, I did not do those things, the people that came before me did those things and they are not here now.

 

Do not try to cash checks written in someone else's blood.

 

:)

Comment by Marcel on August 5, 2011 at 3:55pm
Yes CYber, I mean the Nazi boots shot down by US and Sowjet soldiers (why do Americans always blank out the fact that the Sowjets took by far the highest toll in WW2?), but I also mean the boots worn and supplied by the US.
Comment by sillysillytom on August 5, 2011 at 4:16pm
my dad doesn't vlog or blog on vh but I've put him on before.  He is 87 and was in the Navy during WWII
Comment by RavenLaughs on August 5, 2011 at 5:39pm

@Jfry

 

It is interesting to me, what you said. The whole passive aggressive puss comment.

 

Your perspective is that my efforts to engage a topic from a removed perspective and so so in a way that doesn't directly deal with the confrontation while at the same time makes confrontational actions.

 

I would have to say that this is a valid perspective. If I wanted to be involved in a fashion that was based on anything more than the need to express my opinion and not get my feet dirty in an exchange that is full of bullshit, then I should have.

 

I think there is a very valid point here and I appreciate the fact that you made it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't find value in the fact that you think that your judgement of me has any value, but rather that the simple statement was a precise observation of my choice of path of communication.

 

As I do not hold my political ideology as the DEFINING FACET OF MY PERSON AS A WHOLE, I didn't feel the need to try to engage this topic within the same blog post as it was already sullied with exchanges that had fuck all to do with the actual topic being discussed and more with how the two party system has people that bleed for it.

 

Also, out of respect for the entire exchange I kept myself at arms length. People believe what they believe and they have every right to do so.

 

Now, to address your "Puss" inclusion of my last Vlog into this discussion, which by the way has absolutly nothing to do with the conversation that I mistakenly thought we were engaging in.

 

Ironic that you practiced the EXACT act that you decried me partaking of just moments before.

Should I take a moment to let that sink in or do you feel you have a pretty solid grip on that fact?

 

I wonder though, as my political view is not the crux of who I am or that I have taken any steps to verbally assault the conservative movement on here, how are we ever going to be able to have an exchange? If you start attempting to label me a leftist, progressive, yadda yadda yadda, you are really going to seem rather ignorant and as I really don't give a fuck that you are an active conservative and therefore have no need to make this fact the hub of my speaking to you,

I guess that maybe you and I will actually have to have a mature exchange?

 

Or... and I sincerely hope it does not come to this, I can engage in the mud slinging and personal attacks with complete disregard for you as a person, making sure to fixate on the minutia of the exchanges themselves rather than the content being discussed.

 

Your call.

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